okay, a link

[ritaxis]

Last night, my beloved daughter was ranting about how she can't do the kind of "bullshit" they want her to do in her history/literature Classic Mythology class -- that is, interpret Greek vases and writings -- because it's all made up and bullshit and it's not like math! How the hell did I raise two kids who say crap like this? I'm an anthropologist by training, damn it! And I did lots of art and literature interpretation in my time!

Anyway, this morning she sent me this link (though, dear, you must have hand typed the link, because I had to correct it to get there). It's a fun link.

I'm trying to figure out how to explain explication and interpretation -- she still has three more gen ed classes of this type to get through after this in order to graduate.

It's not bullshit, except when it is, for starters. When it is bullshit, it's bullshit for the same reason that bullshit science is bullshit: bad faith manipulation of the source material. Leaving out important investigative steps that are there to safeguard the honesty of the process. That kind iof thing.

There is more fuzziness to humanities, but there is fuzziness to all interpretations of observations. The greater fuzziness in humanities is partly due to the fact that there is fuzziness in the boundaries between object, subject, medium, information, method and reporting. But you know what else is fuzzy? The boundary between humanities and science, and most certainly the boundary between humanities thinking and science thinking. Don't give me that "two cultures" crap. For one thing, the two cultures crap irritates me because it marginalizes me personally yet afuckinggain. I'm in the margin for everything else, and it gets old.

Okay, now I have to go make lunch.

On another front: I did get to the touchscreen/ballot scanner class last night, though late, because if you have to go to something at the Emeline county buildings complex and you don't have really precise directions you have to give up and go home and get the really precise directions. I did find out there is a back way out of the complex, besides the really creepy narrow route under Highway One: it's the really creepy frontage road that follows Highway Seventeen and eventually takes you to one of those cult ghost towns. And there's no place to turn around in the dark till you get to the entrance ramp to Highway Seventeen.

However, I am pleased to announce that our federally-mandated electronic voting machines are state-mandated to have nearly ungameable paper trails, and have other honesty-checks built into every step of the way. They're also not connected by ethernet or whatever, so they can't be gamed from outside in real time.

When I first moved to this county, election fraud was a way of life. Ballot boxes would disappear for hours. Precincts would be counted with more Republican votes than there were voters. All that kind of stuff. Yes, in small stakes Santa Cruz county. Then there came the University and the Progressive Revolution -- I was a pollwatcher long before I was an election clerk.

So, anyway, no rain today. And forty-three pounds for sure, it's held for several days.

Comments

[cpxbrex.livejournal.com]

In a sort of strange and fascinating reversal, tho' this might be slanted towards the crowd of people I hang out with, almost all of my friends are people in the hard sciences - physicists and mathematicians, specifically - because my wife is a physicist and we meet most of our mutual friends through her department. None of them seem to have this contempt for the humanities.

But I've thought about the question of "why are the humanities important?" quite a bit. And my best answer is this if people are looking for a hard sounding reason (as if simply being able to appreciate cultural works better isn't enough!) is this: we are surrounded by people who tell us a lot of things with words and images. Politicians and advertising rates very high on the list of people who cleverly manipulate us with words and images. To learn to meaningfully interpret words and images helps us deconstruct the hidden meaning behind malicious political and business speech. To not be fooled by clever lies. To get specific, I often give the example of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. There aren't any. Anyone who actually listened to what was said, instead of the filthy rhetoric of warmongering politicians knew it, too. It was said by the chief UN weapon's inspector in Iraq, Hans Blix, and his predecessor, Scott Ritter. But most of the US believed the government's manipulation and carefully crafted images designed to instill fear in our hearts for the purpose of enacting a specific agenda. Even if your daughter saw through the bullshit of Iraq and WMD, there's something out there that is manipulating her, or something that will, something important, and the ability to analyze words and pictures is a vital defense against that sort of manipulation.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

It's not bullshit, except when it is, for starters. When it is bullshit, it's bullshit for the same reason that bullshit science is bullshit: bad faith manipulation of the source material. Leaving out important investigative steps that are there to safeguard the honesty of the process. That kind iof thing.

Yes, that. It's easier to be accidentally dishonest in the fuzzy-studies *I think*. It's probably equally easy to ignore conflicting evidence you know about, but I think it's easier to then get *caught* in the sciences.

I went to a good school, and avoided most of the fuzzy studies and nearly all of the humanities, and it was a long time ago, but I hear too many stories of teachers you have to agree with (to get a good grade) particularly in literature and history lately. That's bad teaching, and makes it easier for people to claim it's all opinions.

In school, among my parents' friends, and among my own, I notice quite clearly that science people are more interested and know a lot more about the humanities than humanities people do about science, in general. It's even built into the course structures of most places I've checked -- there's often some variant of "physics for poets", but the science majors take the same lit courses as the lit majors and the same history courses as the history majors and the same music courses as the music majors and the same art courses as the art majors (though not *usually* to the point of a double major). (At engineering schools you get people with very narrow focus, not at all like this, but that's not where I've been or investigated.)

[zeborah]

Engineering department at my uni introduced a new course last year compulsory for all intermediate students, the first assignment for which involved doing research in the library and writing a few short essays. True quote overheard in the library: " I chose engineering so I wouldn't have to write essays! "

(I've spent some time these holidays created flowcharts for how to cite books, journal articles, etc, in the hopes that it'll be easier for the coming year's students to cope with than the text-and-links webpages we presently have that are oh-so-clearly designed by librarians. This isn't really a two-cultures thing, though: I don't think the text-and-links are overly useful for anyone. Still, baby engineers in particular balk at having to read lots of stuff.)

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

In my last job, the engineers I hired all complained when I explained that I expected them to have good grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Same thing -- engineers don't have to know things like that. As far as I'm concerned, they do.

[blackoakdreams.livejournal.com]

I call foul. Science is made up too. Theorems are, by definition, ways of coming of with the most correct answer most often, not immutable laws. They have a tendency to change if you don't keep your eye on them at all times. What was correct fifty, thirty, hell, ten years ago is not necessarily what the scientific community considers given today.

Also, my engineering friends took the same introduction level literature courses as I did. That doesn't mean they took the same courses I did. The introduction classes made them foam at the mouth enough, they'd have been spitting teeth if they had to perform the level of analysis and research I reached. Which is something I find silly, since, as you say, they did the same thing in some of their classes.

Just breath deep Lucy, and think about why she is saying what she is saying. It's not like Math. Think about that like an Anthropologist. Math appeals to certain personality types, not least because of its (apparent) certainty, but also because there is a certain amount of democratic approachability to it. In theory, anyone can learn it. Math and Science work the same if you are Bill Gates or a child starving to death in Africa. Given tools and enough time for observation, anyone can "reinvent the wheel," that is, teach themselves every aspect of Modern Science. You don't need anyone to interpret it for you, it is all out there just waiting to be found by anyone with the aptitude. The Humanities, on the other hand, are entirely dependent on interpretation and knowledge that you simply have to be educated about. Plato is well and truly dead; there is now way to find out what he said except by the translations and interpretations that have survived down to today.

Try reasoning with her with that in mind. She didn't run out and check every statement made by her physics professor, did she? No, she took his word for it, comforted by the knowledge that if she wanted to check it, she could. Tell her that Humanities works the same way, except that instead of running a lab, cross-checking the professor involves delving through peer-reviewed and edited publications, which her library almost certainly (especially if she goes to a research university, like on of the UCs) has available. An explication? Pff. I wrote a six page paper once explicating four words. The important thing to keep in mind is that every viewpoint is valid to a certain degree, and if she can back up her statements with research, she'll be fine. If her TA insists that the professor's words are the one true way, go over the TA's head to the professor. I've never met a University teacher yet that would object to talking with a student who comes armed with a bibliography. They have to keep looking to their next publication, and someone that aids them in their research will get brownie points.

If all else fails, remind her that education is the process by which cultural values are transferred, and it is her turn to be educated.