Emma's home

[ritaxis]

Heavily drugged, still in pain, but playing Pokemon D&D with Frank and some of their friends. Doing really well. She has had pudding and hot and sour soup, which helps. Jason is being really helpful for her too. So's Frank.

The nice fellow and I and I had a screaming argument about whether to use a rental car or public transportation while in Europe. Any informed opinions?

On another front, who'se done voice posts while travelling? Is it a good idea?

Comments

transportation in Europe

[dragonet2.livejournal.com]

Between the occasional use of cabs and constant use of the tube, busses and trains, I cannot imagine anyone in London, Glasgow or Dublin needing to own a car.

Research where you are going to go. And also research the driving. Last time I was in Italy (granted it was in the late 70s) as far as I could tell, they drove like they do in the third world. No consistent rules of the road. I was soooo happy mom hired a driver.

It may be that public transportation is all you need, and if the driving is insane, I'd much rather be in a 10,000 pound bus or better yet, in a subway below random traffic.

the ony other thing about our UK/Ireland trip is that it REALLY pissed us off about the public transportation in Kansas City.

[hrj.livejournal.com]

The transport question depends entirely on where you'll be, what you'll be doing, and how much you're willing to tailor your itinerary to your chosen mode of transportation. My experiences in Europe have involved both angles, although the times we had a car I wasn't driving yet. Some considerations:

In my experience, within major urban zones, a personal car is actually a liability, especially for the casual tourist. In addition to the standard difficulty of trying to navigate an unfamiliar urban space, you'll be navigating an unfamiliar driving culture, and then you'll have to deal with parking which will be as awful as dealing with parking in SF or NYC.

Also in my experience, the public transit in most European major urban areas is quite adequate for the task of getting where you want to go. And if you end up doing a little more walking than normal -- well, it's sightseeing.

Conversely, if your travel involves a significant amount of going from small town or rural site A to small town or rural site B (or even from major urban center A to small town or rural site B), and especially if your time is limited, then a personal car may be essential. The rail system is excellent (beyond excellent) for traveling between cities, or for traveling between any two served points if you don't have strict time constraints. But, for example, when I was traveling from Llantrisant in Wales to London, it took nearly a full 24 hours because there was only one bus a day between Llantrisant and Aberystwyth, and a limited number of trains from Aberystwyth to points east, and the scheduling meant an obligatory overnight stay in Aberystwyth. Since sightseeing was a major part of my purpose, this wasn't a problem, but if I'd been on a 7 stops in 7 days tour, it would have been.

Back on the public transit side: you will have many more interactions both with local people and with other travelers using public transit than a private car. Some will be good, some bad, but for most it will sum up far on the positive side. Many of my cherished memories from European travel wouldn't have occurred if I hadn't been using public transportation.

Ironically, the two times I've been in Europe with a personal car (2 separate sabbatical years for my Dad when I was a kid) were when we had all the time in the world (but with 6 people in the party, the personal car became more cost effective) whereas the two times I've been there without a car (a 3-month post-graduation trip and a 1-month conference+friend's-wedding trip) I was packing a lot more into the available time. But in the latter cases, I more or less tailored my itinerary to the transportation. There were things I simply didn't try to see because the enjoyment:time ratio wasn't high enough.

All in all, if at all practical, I'd strongly advise planning on using public tranportation and then adjusting your plans around that constraint. Not worrying about the mechanics of driving and navigation will make it easier to pay attention to, and enjoy, your surroundings. My two cents.

[annafdd.livejournal.com]

What hrj said.

Depends a lot on what you are doing and where you are going. Visiting rural areas - a car is essential. Going from largish town A to largish town B, car is probably a liablitly.

Public transport in Italy withing towns is pretty bad, while the train network is cheap and frequent. BUt alas this doesn't mean that you can use a car - just that you need to be patient. A car takes just as much time, and is a lot more stressful. People who complain about public transport in London (and there are) should just try going from one end to the other in Padova, pop. 300,000 if that.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

Public transport in cities, rental cars for inbetween. If you want to see anything outside a city, hire a car for a day or two - there _are_ organised bus trips to sites or public access, but it can be very much hit and miss, and not worth the hassle, and you get to see a lot more landscape and at your own pace.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

I can't drive and therefore have managed to get around my whole life without a car. I've occasionally been to places where one couldn't possibly live without one, but they've all been in the US.

You'll be fine without one as long as you regard time spent waiting for trains and buses as part of the joy of travel, rather than an unbearable imposition.

Where are you going to go?

[del-c.livejournal.com]

Don't think of the car as something you "can" do without, as if it were the superior convenience. In large European towns, it may be a ball and chain instead, with public transport the clearly superior convenience. There's parking, and the density and speed of road traffic, to consider, both of which are much less tourist-friendly in Europe than in California.

On holiday in CA in 1997, I was surprised how quickly I was able to fall into a mindset that considered hopping into a car, driving from San Francisco to San Jose for an evening in a restaurant, and driving back to SF, to be a reasonable and relaxing activity. Why not? The parking was easy to find, the roads were wide and free, and it took minutes to get on the freeway at one end, and to get to the destination after leaving the freeway at the other.

It's not that I couldn't do the same thing between London and Reading, but that it would suck all the enjoyment out of an evening out. How much easier to hop on a train for the fifty mile trip and be there in thirty minutes!

Both sides of this question have their disadvantages, of course, so inevitably the "loser" in this argument is going to have plenty of opportunities to say "This wouldn't have happened if we'd done it my way...", and be right. Remember, whether you go by private or public, you've spent good money to be where you are, don't waste it by getting stressed. If you're delayed for any reason, just chill out and use the time to look around.

[ritaxis.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I've just realized that we've been thinking about this all wrong. The question isn't "Car or train?" It's "are there any points at which it's better to use a car?" and then consider renting a car for a bit of the time.

We're going to Amsterdam, Berlin, and Copenhagen, I think: the ultimate destination is Langeland, in Denmark, where my brother- and sister-in-law live in the summer.

I'm thinking that we want to rent a car for Denmark, and public transportation elsewise, maybe. Because the house is kind of out of the way.

[kip-w.livejournal.com]

We got along on a combination of public transport and tour buses when we went somewhere (England, Italy, China). For the most part, I wouldn't want to try driving in those places if I didn't have to. In England they drive on the left. In Italy and China they drive wherever they want. Okay, not really, but they drive to the beat of a different drummer there, and the cabs in China are super cheap.

My cousin and his family just finished a European/Asian vacation staying in hostels and riding bikes everywhere.

[kip-w.livejournal.com]

I almost think I could drive on the left, by the way, but whenever the tour bus went through a traffic interchange, the cells of my body shouted this is wrong! Danger, Will Robinson! Obviously, if I moved there (mmmmmm), I'd learn to do what I had to do. For a visit, that seems like too much work.