Questions for horse people (please save me from the quicksand of research)

[ritaxis]

This fellow is living in a world that is rather like ours in 1890. He's working as an itinerant photographer and he has a boxed-in wagon and a largeish, bad-tempered horse. He's only modestly skilled at handling horses, though that might be ameliorated by the fact that he's a shrewdly manipulative person in general. What should I know?

How much and what sort of feed can my fellow get by with at minimum? What about water? How often does that horse need to rest? How long does it need to rest?

How does the horse's bad temper manifest itself? How do you placate a horse who doesn't want to take your wagon somewhere? (yes, placate, not intimidate)

Comments

[jeriendhal.livejournal.com]

Adult horse hauling a wagon would qualify for "Moderate/heavy work" so you're looking at between 7 and 8 pounds of feed a day, assuming it isn't supplemented by grass or hay.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

There are rather a lot of variables here. What season is it? What is the climate like? How far are they travelling per day?

I have a feeling that traditional tinkers or gypsies didn't feed their horses much more than grass in the summer. In the past, British lanes had wide verges and they'd just tether the horses to graze overnight. Assuming the horse is of native stock (most likely in a wagon horse), trundling slowly all day with a rest and a snack for human and horse midday with the horse grazing at night would be doable without much (if any) supplementary feeding. If you're travelling further and faster, you'd need more high energy food for the horse, which would be oats or barley with some bran. If the horse can't graze for whatever reason, it will need hay for bulk.

[heleninwales.livejournal.com]

Bad temper in horses manifests in laid back ears, twitching tails, stamping a hoof and baring of teeth. However, horses (especially those of common ancestry) are often susceptible to bribery with food, so that's one way to persuade it to go somewhere it doesn't.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Is the horse mean or just opinionated, perhaps verging on horsey jokes because he knows his handler is inexperienced? I don't think you want a dangerous horse, you probably want a smart horse who may be older, a little sore and self-protective, and annoyed at being handled by someone with lesser skills. Lots of potential there, especially if your horse and handler combination are new to each other. So for example, handler tries to force horse to do something. Horse refuses. Handler stops, thinks, tries a more manipulative method using food. Horse snitches treat or tries to match manipulativeness (they can be quite manipulative in their own right). Horse eventually persuades handler to "ask," not "demand" compliance.

Handler tries to put the bridle on wrong. Horse resists by holding head high, and only reluctantly takes the bit when offered a treat with the bit. Then someone else bridles the horse one day and they do it correctly (handler has been sticking bit in mouth and then trying to put the headstall over horse's ears. Correct person takes the top of the headstall--the part of the bridle without the bit--in their right hand and holds the bit in their left hand. Horse takes the bit without a treat as the handler slides the headstall over the horse's ears. Handler eyes horse, then next time awkwardly tries to put bridle on correctly instead of jamming the bit in the mouth and then trying to pull on the headstall. Horse complies).

Other areas of resistance would be picking up the feet, snapping at the handler while harnessing and hitching, cow-kicking (forward and up kick with a hind leg, usually done in a controlled manner to indicate displeasure with handling) while tightening the harness surcingle (belly band that helps hold harness in place), and clamping down tail hard against the haunches so that the crupper (piece of leather that goes under the tail to help hold harness in place) can't be placed under his tail. Snapping might not be directly targeted at the handler but perhaps six inches to the side, with a laid-back (but not pinned) ear.

With the feet, same thing. Horse keeps feet planted even though handler flings his full weight against the leg. He has to wrestle the foot up and then the horse leans on him. Then handler sees someone else cleaning their horse's feet and notices that they cluck and run a hand down the leg. He tries it and voila! Horse picks up hoof (but still leans on the handler).

[ritaxis.livejournal.com]

The handler is not a newbie: but he's driven a smaller, more compliant horse on the same small wagon with less cargo in the past, and the horse comes to him with a bad reputation. I'm really interested in the behaviors you describe.

So I guess I'm wondering what kind of mistakes a person would make if they weren't totally new to horses but they'd not had to deal with so much personality before? Of course it's possible he's never had to rig up a horse before, just taking it from the stable out to work and back again (he's a photographer for a group of theaters, but now he's taking off on his own for an extended trip) It's likely he's never had to clean the horse's feet before. Oh, how often does that have to happen? Does it depend on the quality of the road? It will be over varying types of soil, mostly unpaved, some graveled and some dirt.

Would a person who is only a casual driver of horses know how often the feet have to be cleaned, and how to clean them?

Could the horse be imprinted on a different person and resent my guy just for being the wrong person?

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

Compliant horse might have gone 'ok, then' and done what the handler asked as long as he could work out more or less what was wanted. This one wants to be asked correctly and might be extremely deaf to half-hearted commands (and if the horse is grumpy, snapping teeth and waving hindlegs, then a relative novice might well be intimidated.

(Shame your theme doesn't show pictures: this is what Crumble looked like when the flies bothered him. Would *you* want to come up and pet this horse?)

[ritaxis.livejournal.com]

I didn't know my theme didn't show pictures in the comments. Fooey, I really can't see the picture of Crumble. Do you have a link to another place for the picture?

It does show pictures in the feed, so I never suspected.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

"Imprinting" in horse terms is a relatively new concept and refers to heavy handling of a newborn foal. While the result may backfire, done correctly it tends to create an overly docile horse. "Bonding" is a better and more precise term, but in any case, the resentment would be tied to "things you do different from my preferred person."

Hoof picking should be at least daily, and a mindful handler would pick hooves before and after work. Think of the skill level of a renter or subscription driver as far as car maintenance goes.

"Bad reputation." What exactly is this horse's bad reputation? Difficult to work with, stubborn, or dangerous? Tell me about some of the things you're picturing.

[ritaxis.livejournal.com]

I'm discovering what the bad reputation should from all your kind responses!

I think "bonding" is what I meant, and I see immediately what you mean by the resentment being focused on doing things a different way.

I know that I've written that my fellow asks for a different horse, and is told he has to have this one because of the weight of his wagon and supplies, and it ruins his mood for a while. I'm picturing him losing a lot of time trying to negotiate with the horse. If he doesn't pick the horse's feet often enough, how much damage happens (I'm a softie and while I'd love for him to do something stupid with respect to the horse, there's no narrative need for him to really hurt it)?

If he only picks hooves after the day's work because he doesn't know any better, would the horse be uncomfortable and balkier?

When they're in the mountains, some of the roads will be graveled, but most not--some will be clay, some sandy, some very uneven with rocks. When the road is very muddy, is it even worse for the feet?

I'm hoping for a scenario in which the horse is uncooperative and the driver is having to figure out what to do, and figures it out imperfectly, until they encounter the person who knows horses.


However, this is not a book about horses, so I'm hoping not to spend the next three months studying them!

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Honestly, unless the horse has hoof problems, the once-a-day picking would be enough. Unless he picks up a stone in the cleft of his frog during the day, in which case he'd be sore and perhaps limping.

Mud can lead to problems if he's standing in it.

Perhaps your fellow could be not paying attention to correctly fitting the hames and horse collar (this is one area I suggest you research; it would be the part that goes around the horse's neck and rests on the shoulders that is attached to the wagon). That could create a rub or sore spot that would make an already grumpy horse more resistant to being harnessed. And it would cause a short layup for the horse to heal. Fitting the collar and hames is more precise than the breast collar a show harness uses, and can cause soreness. I'm trying to think of a handy source.

Or another spot could be the surcingle that goes around the belly, and the horse gets a girth gall that needs treatment and prevention. That could be caused by something as simple as your fellow not brushing very well in that area because the horse is girthy and pins his ears and snaps (some horses have muscle issues in that area, rather like people with tight shoulders), so your fellow doesn't brush well there. Could be fixed with a sheepskin pad over the surcingle (that would go all the way around the lower part under the belly) and might result in noticably improved mood in the horse.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

Not picking feet (the horse may pick up a stone and be uncomfortable) might lead to him being sore, but he's not likely to associate it with the handler. (An unshod horse rarely picks up mud/stones; shod horses do it all the time.)

A handler who is not overly skilled at tacking up, on the other hand - who lets the bit hit the teeth when bridling, who puts the collar on badly, who tightens the surcingle too quickly and too strongly, who tightens the crupper too much... those are actions that lead to immediate discomfort, and a lot of horses will remember them and be far less cooperative the next day.

For bridling, raising the head straight into the air is a good trick that will annoy your character no end. Otherwise, a horse that puts its front feet exactly where your character has *his* foot so he has to pay triple attention where he's standing is a good trick that otherwise placid horses might show towards novice-ish handlers.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

You've got good advice already. Feed you probably don't need much as long as the horse can graze all night and during breaks (you'd need a stake and a long line or hobbles, depending on your culture). If you're travelling in civilised country and he's got money, he might purchase a little grain at inns; he'd definitely have a nosebag. (And with a nosebag, horse can't bite...)

Water: if you're travelling in middle/northern Europe, there'll be plenty of streams and ponds; you'd pick resting places to ensure there's water available and let him drink. Otherwise, villages and inns will probably have a trough or water pump.

How much rest he'll need depends on the roads and the weight of the wagon. The muddier the road, the more rest; ditto if it's very hot and you'd be travelling early morning, siesta, late afternoon.

A not-uncommon problem with horses is balking and not wanting to pass something - pigs (the stench can travel, so Dobbin might suddenly freeze and refuse to move), water, and wooden bridges being the most common, but giving a side-eye to loud noises, smells, and odd shapes/structures (and anything fluttering in the wind) and then flat out refusing to move are common problems. A high-spirited horse might get visibly upset, try to turn around, or run; a more placid horse might simply shut down and get more sluggish the more people try to beat it up.

Getting off and leading frequently works. Extra points if he walks slightly ahead of the horse: many a horse that will not follow when you're walking near his shoulder (the safest place) will walk along if you're the first to be eaten by imagined bears.