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ritaxis: (Default)
Saturday, December 11th, 2010 05:26 pm
A followup to this post  What I forgot to point out is that, by declaring that my link was what she wanted, the poster killed the thread, so that if I had wanted to discuss it further, I couldn't, since "found" threads are locked and moved to a separate area.

Not that it would have been good form to continue the discussion in that corner of the forum anyway.
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ritaxis: (Default)
Friday, December 10th, 2010 11:14 am
This is a followup to this post in which I agonized over how to respond to a peculiarly offensive post in a Sims forum.  I ended up cutting and pasting the trial response I added to that post in one of the endless edits I made that night.

(realizing much later I should have proofread but what the hell).

Here's the response (I still wish I knew how to format those block quote lines in livejournal):

Uhh... Sorry? o_O If it makes you feel any better I'm part Cherokee. It's just a fictional character though, nothing to be even slightly offended. And for the record (I'm not being rude or trying to be) I did not search Native American tattoo, I did in fact search wolf tattoo or even simply wolf and tattoo seperately and did not find what I was looking for. You're kinda making it sound like I think ALL Cherokee natives are this way, lol. By the way, I know the history of Cherokee and other Native Americans, I've done my research. But again, what I am searching for is totally for something fictional and within my own interest. I apologize for making myself seem 'ignorant'. Honestly, the link you gave is what I was looking for. I probably should have posted Native American-esque clothing or some such. I was unsure how to properly post this request anyway considering Native American/Indian/Cherokee seems... not too accurate. I'll keep in mind to be more clear about what I want in the future. I can kinda see your point but even though you explained I just can't see how any offense - even mildly - could have been taken to my post or descriptions.

Also, the picture came from deviantart. Someone had made that picture with a program, it is not a sim. >__>; I was just curious if anything similar existed for sims at all and it was also not for the guy but for another sim that is female. There's some story behind my sims, these are for reference. I plan to write a novel of the idea in my head.

(I really do hope my tone of text does not sound harsh, bitchy, mean, or rude. I'm just trying to clear the air here, lol.)


 
I'm not answering.  I did my job, and I just don't see how it is any further my responsibility to educate this child.  She did, in fact, clear the air for me: she told me she's as bad as my more pessimistic assessment rather than as good as my more optimistic assessment. 

For those of you playing: the "part Cherokee" square: the fake apology square: the "only fictional" square: the patently false claim to having "done the research:" and I don't think there is a square for this, but when she said "honestly the link you gave is what I was looking for?"  Here's the link I posted: not the one I intended to post, which was this.  In any case, not what she said she was looking for.  (can you even see that second thing if you haven't registered at Blacky's?  If you can't, the first thing on the page is a handsome rendition of porcupine-quill chest armor in two versions, followed by three beaded headbands and some beaded leggings. So, the only thing she said in her second post I can whole heartedly agree to is that "considering Native American/Indian/Cherokee seems... not too accurate."

On another front, I'm home sick today and my house stinks.
 
ritaxis: (Default)
Wednesday, December 8th, 2010 06:38 pm
Warning: really offensive "racial" ideas in a Sims context.  Especially in the linked bit, but the quote is bad enough.

In a Sims forum I read and post to, I saw this request:


(how do you get those lines on the side of a block quote that show it is in fact a block quote and not your own words?  I would hate to have anybody think I wrote this stuff)


I have a Cherokee sim that I'm trying to show off but before I go to fully create him I need a few things first.

I need a wolf tattoo or at least some tattooed skin (he's a light caramel brown in pigment) but his family is very close to the wolf spirits so I thought a wolf tattoo would be sexy. xD I also need some feathers and winter-style clothing. Unless he's inside he wears a lot of layers.

Also, if anyone knows where I can find clothes in this style, that would help a WHOLE bunch!
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/078/e/f/Native_Girl_by_Dragonfly3D.jpg

I've already scoped out all of Modthesims. I don't think I'll find much else there unless there isn't something listed under the Native American/Indian criteria that matches what I'm looking for. ._.; (It happens~)

 
I just don't know how to begin with so much worngness.  I am assuming that the person is young and naive as so many of these people are.  But she (probably she) has both the responsibility and the right to do better than this. 

I want tio start out by saying that I don't want to tell people not to make "ethnic" sims at all: I think that's not the desirable outcome.  People should feel free to make Sims in colors and with historical or contemporary backgrounds of different cultures.  But beyond that, oh my, is there anything in this that is not completely, flabbergastingly, overwhelmingly wrong?

Should I start from the geometrical top, with the idea that there's something wild-animal-like about the Cherokee, who have an exquisitelcy civilized and siophisticated history and culture? -- or start at the ideological bottom. with the more basic wrongness of equating Native people with some kind of sexy animalistic mystical crap?  Or should I take it piece by piece, addressing all the little wrong ideas and using them to come to a more general description of how offensive this kind of exoticism is?

And oh my dog, if you click on that link, prepare yourself against deeply appalled rage.

I don't trust myself to deal with this without discussing it beforehand.  I am not out to create a huge scene: I want this thing to stop, preferably because the kid who's doing it comes to understand what's wrong with it and figures out a more healthy way to deal with her fantasies.

edit: I figured out a preliminary response:

Maybe the reason you're not finding what you're looking for is that what you're looking for doesn't have much to do with Native Americans, either historically or in contemporary culture and life, and even more especially Cherokees.  At Blacky's Zoo you can find some kind of stereotyped Plains Indians outfits of the 1880's, but that's not what you're looking for either.  The Cherokee aren't  a Plains nation anyway.  They are an exiled Southeastern nation: before they were force-marched to Oklahoma, they had an elaborate, modern kingdom of about the size of a small European country, with developed gold mines, railroads, and printing presses (it's pretty explicit that the reason for the destruction of their country was the gold mines).  Once they arrived in Oklahoma, they participated in the same kind of farming and ranching economy as the white and black settlers in the area.  Their clothing has been more or less "regular American" for so long that  "dressing like a Cherokee" has no meaning at all.

Theclothing in the picure you link to looks like nothing more or less than a stripper's costume -- and there's nothing really wrong with a stripper's costume -- so maybe that's a clue to what you should be searching for. As for the wolf tattoo, search for wolf tattoo, not for Native American tattoo: there are a lot of tattoos out there, and I bet you could find one that's like what you're thinking of.

I was going to be really, really offended, by the way, at the assumptions and implicit racism in what you posted, but I peeled away the language you used and at the core of it there's a sweet little silly fantasy, if you free it from racist labeling: sexy man, with beautiful honey colored-skin and silly skimpy clothing with gaudy decorations (I love gaudy myself), with mystical tattoos -- what's not to love?  Except for the wording: you should  be aware that you're describing your fantasy Sim in extremely inaccurate and potentially very offensive ways.



So what do you think?  Educational enough?  Helpful enough?  Firm enough?  Not too mealy-mouthed?  You should know that this particular forum is not the home of very sophisticated people and it purports to be politically neutral but we all know what neutral really means whether anybody means it to or not.  Also, is it counter-productive to use modifiers like "potentially very offensive" when I mean "downright extemely offensive" just in order to keep the person from going baliistically defensive?

By the way, I have been editing this every thirty seconds for the last fifteen minutes.  Sorry for what that's probably doing to your flist, but I want to say what I really mean, especially since I have reason to believe this will be read by people who don't have a history with me or a reason to cut me slack (hell yes I want to make a decent first impression).

Interim final edit: okay, I'm going to go with the response I wrote and hope for the best.